South African Skeptics

Protection of Information Bil

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Offline Lilli

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I actually get a little irritated when things like this land up in my inbox - but hey, I suppose it can't hurt...

Quote
Dear all,

The proposed Media Appeals Tribunal and the Protection of Information Bill will erode our hard won democracy and severely limit our right to know what the government of the day is up to.

Please sign the petition to the President at:

http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?MFSA

Please circulate to others. Thousands of signatures are needed.

 


Offline GCG

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i actually think i signed that one....
seriously though, if one wants to have your voice heard, how do go about getting a petition going, that will actually reach the relevant person (as if it wil make an iota of dofference)
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Offline BoogieMonster

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One of the coolest (and most influential) petition sites on the web I've seen Avaaz: http://www.avaaz.org/en

Although I have to mention that when the Dalai Lama was denied a SA visa, they ran a petition and had zero effect. They do, however, seem to be more influential at global "summits" and the like.

(and, of course, they pick the cause, not you)
"Monkey killing monkey killing monkey over pieces of the ground, Silly monkeys, give them thumbs, they make a club and beat their brother down. How they survive, so misguided, is a mystery. Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here" - Tool


Offline GCG

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i only gained intelligence post apardheid, so i have heard of this thing called a referendum.
now as i understand, and i may be horribly wrong, that the government of the time had one to decide if mandela was to go free, or have free elections, or whatever the case.
why is it then, now, that the public has zero say anymore about what happens in the country?
surely, something like this, should have public input.  the public is being hogtied and stuffed a spin doctored apple in the mouth, and they still do what they hell ever they please.
and you can vote for your canditate, but after that, he does what he pleases, and he is not held acocuntable by the people who put him there.  nobobdy answers for promises left stagnant.
what kind of action does the public need to partake in, to get back control OF THEIR OWN COUNTRY?
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Offline Brian

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it's called democracy...one wo/man; one vote; once only!  >:( Seriously though, the government of the day IS accountable to the voters but they ignore their responsibility and try their best to lie their way through the next election...it's all about bums in parliamentary plush seats. The current proportional vote is laugable though as no-one is asked to report back like in the old apartheid days when MP's represented a particular area/precinct and when shit hits the fan that MP is obliged to come back and face the people who voted for him/her: Now they go to a National Conference of the ANC or whatever and the reps there vote for a leader(s) and the rest of us are stuck with them. My ANC friends say "get involved" "make a difference" but no ways am I going to dance like a puppet on a broken rubber condom!
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Offline GCG

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i would get involved,  but i have about as much political sway as said broken condom.
and seriously now, whose gonna listen to another white woman yapping?
if there is someone who i can back, not zille mind, then i will be there and ready to rock and roll.
maybe, and im thumbsucking here, we are progressing back to the pre-freedom violence.  unhappy people burning shit and making noise.
people are not happy.  and it shows.
maybe, and this is horrible, we need some violence, some people violently taken off the throne, to bring things back to balance.
oh hell, that propably wont work either, coz power corrupts, and we will be back to square one soon enough.
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Offline Mefiante

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I have a suspicion that the ANC’s proposals re the media also derive in no small part from a cultural perspective that is inimical to democratic principles.  In many traditional African cultures, tribal leaders were seen as unassailable.  That is, they wielded power such that their decisions and pronouncements were not to be challenged or criticised on pain of severe punishment.  Respect for them was unconditional and they of course expected and enforced this.  The ANC’s upper echelons seem to want this culture to carry over into a liberal, constitutional democracy so that they will be the objects of reverence, praise and adulation that tribal leaders were and in some instances still are.  Obviously, a free press threatens this desire because it facilitates virtually unrestrained criticism and exposure of weaknesses, failings and deficiencies of our leaders.  This perspective, I think, is why the ANC mouthpieces keep harping on “the individual’s right to dignity” and “the media’s failings” in defence of their proposals.

If there is any substance to the above, the upshot would be that the ANC either places traditions above democratic principles, or it has forgotten what “democracy” means, and possibly both.

'Luthon64
"Sensitive" people are now carefully examining the entire universe, trying to find something to be "offended" at. It won't stop until such time as the "offenders" learn to stop apologizing, and saying "freck off" instead. — brianvds, The ShoutBox Classics, 02/07/2018.


Offline Faerie

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Offline GCG

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simply coz she is the obvious choice, and people will oppose her simply cause she is the obvious choice.  she has stepped on toes, and, in general, i have total love for her, she kicks ass, but because she is white, and female, she wont get the kind of support for the DA, if she was of colour, and a male.  and that is a total anti-feminist feeling, but unfortunately, one has to see where the polical river flows.  now is not the time to be radical, and try and go for the morally correct candidate.  the DA needs a strong canditate, of colour.
Or someone, say like Hlomelo Biko, who is on our board of advisors, he should take a stand.  his dad was killed by the police, so he should have a very strong voice amongst the people.
i think though, that the clever people try and steer clear of politics.
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Offline Mefiante

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Quote from: <a href="http://www.mg.co.za/article/2010-08-31-civil-society-takes-up-fight-against-info-bill">Civil society takes up fight against info Bill</a>
“We have the critical mass of support to take [the Protection of Information Bill] to the Constitutional Court if needs be,” [Judith February, a member of Idasa’s Right2Know campaign] said.



In addition, more than 400 individuals, including prominent public figures such as Archbishop Desmond Tutu, author Nadine Gordimer and former minister of intelligence Kadar Asmal, have also declared their support for the Right2Know campaign.

Further backing has come from international bodies such as Global Witness, Access Info Europe, the African Information Centre and Transparency International.



Website: www.r2k.org.za
'Luthon64
"Sensitive" people are now carefully examining the entire universe, trying to find something to be "offended" at. It won't stop until such time as the "offenders" learn to stop apologizing, and saying "freck off" instead. — brianvds, The ShoutBox Classics, 02/07/2018.


Offline mdg

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Thanks for the link Mefiante.

I heard about the petition on the radio and wanted to go and sign so I typed in www.right2know.co.za, which didn't exist but, Google being the helpful tool it is asked if I meant www.right2know.net - so I clicked on that.

Guess where I ended up..... AAARRRGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!

I finally got to sign the petition thanks to checking here.

mdg
“Yes, reason has been a part of organized religion, ever since two nudists took dietary advice from a talking snake.”
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Offline Mefiante

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De nada, mdg.  I consider it a duty to my fellow rationalists. :D

A “Black Wednesday” protest against the Protection of Information Bill and Media Appeals Tribunal is planned for October 19.  André Brink called these proposed measures a ‘sickening’ throwback to the apartheid era.  The SA Catholic Bishops Conference urged government to withdraw its proposals in their current form, and the SA Law Deans Association (SALDA) has raised concerns about the Bill’s potential limitations of academic freedom.  The Association for Communication and Advertising (ACA) is also opposed to media restrictions.  It seems then that the groundswell of rejection and condemnation of the ANC’s proposals is increasing rapidly.  I think that the ANC is truly surprised by the staunch resistance it is encountering, which may yet see them engage in some earnest re-evaluations.

Along related lines, the US’s Bill of Rights seems to be under subtly menacing attack, so it’s not just here in SA where attempts at eroding rights are mounting.  It will be interesting to see what the US Supreme Court will say on the matter when faced with the case, as it surely will in the not too distant future.

Fortunately, there’s still Julian Assange’s WikiLeaks to combat such subversive attempts up to a point.

'Luthon64
"Sensitive" people are now carefully examining the entire universe, trying to find something to be "offended" at. It won't stop until such time as the "offenders" learn to stop apologizing, and saying "freck off" instead. — brianvds, The ShoutBox Classics, 02/07/2018.


Offline Mefiante

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Yet another negative angle:  Concern over the inhibiting effect the Protection of Information Bill will have on the willingness of whistleblowers to step forward.

'Luthon64
"Sensitive" people are now carefully examining the entire universe, trying to find something to be "offended" at. It won't stop until such time as the "offenders" learn to stop apologizing, and saying "freck off" instead. — brianvds, The ShoutBox Classics, 02/07/2018.


Offline Mefiante

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Next year …  just wait for that media tribunal. You are looking for it,” Sharon Makhubele-Mashele (an ANC MP) said to a group of parliamentary journalists who refused to leave a sitting of the Health Committee after being told to do so by the Committee chairperson Bevan Goqwana of the ANC.  In other words, the ANC’s members are already taking the Media Appeals Tribunal as a fait accompli and possibly the Protection of Information Bill too.

'Luthon64
"Sensitive" people are now carefully examining the entire universe, trying to find something to be "offended" at. It won't stop until such time as the "offenders" learn to stop apologizing, and saying "freck off" instead. — brianvds, The ShoutBox Classics, 02/07/2018.


Offline GCG

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i can see how the politici view this as a cure-all for the shit they come up with.  and they will get away with it too.  this is not going to end well.
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