South African Skeptics

Protection of Information Bil

GCG · 84 · 34715

Offline Faerie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 2128
    • Skeptical ability: +10/-2
So.  Realistically speaking.  How screwed are we?

Based on history which by all appearances is repeating itself, pretty much.


Offline Mefiante

  • Defollyant Iconoclast
  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 3796
    • Skeptical ability: +64/-9
  • In solidarity with rwenzori: Κοπρος φανεται
    • Me, according to johnno777
As usual, Zapiro sums it up flawlessly.  See attached.

'Luthon64
"Sensitive" people are now carefully examining the entire universe, trying to find something to be "offended" at. It won't stop until such time as the "offenders" learn to stop apologizing, and saying "freck off" instead. — brianvds, The ShoutBox Classics, 02/07/2018.


Offline BoogieMonster

  • NP complete
  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 3286
    • Skeptical ability: +19/-1
If I'm not mistaken, this still has to survive the constitutional court.

Of course, the ANC managed to convince a clear majority that this should be legislated, so I don't see them having trouble getting it amended to the constitution. At which point I'll start to feel forced to do the unthinkable, and leave this place.  :(

If this seems like the typical overreaction to you, I apologise, but freedom of speech is one of those things I hold very dear and critical to my personal freedom.
"Monkey killing monkey killing monkey over pieces of the ground, Silly monkeys, give them thumbs, they make a club and beat their brother down. How they survive, so misguided, is a mystery. Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here" - Tool


Offline st0nes

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 942
    • Skeptical ability: +10/-1
    • Grumpy Old Man
...so I don't see them having trouble getting it amended to the constitution.
Amendments to the constitiution require a 2/3 majority which the ANC don't have anymore (and probably will never have again) so, yes, they will have trouble amending the constitution.
Tempora mutantur, nos et mutamur in illis

Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.--Groucho Marx


Offline Mefiante

  • Defollyant Iconoclast
  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 3796
    • Skeptical ability: +64/-9
  • In solidarity with rwenzori: Κοπρος φανεται
    • Me, according to johnno777
See also recent comments in our ShoutBox.
Quote from: ShoutBox (22 & 23/11/2011)
(09:24:14) JoanA_Arc: It's Tuesday. 18 working days till I go on leave. I feel like this little guy looks... and needs my holiday!
(10:20:52) Faerie: Its a regular grumpy Toosday...
(14:03:07) JoanA_Arc: And don't get me started on my opinion about Turdsdays
(15:04:25) Mefiante: … and by Fried-day you’re too chipped to do anything besides concentrate on recovering from the week’s ravages.
(15:06:11) Mefiante: So, who’s wearing black today?
(15:38:25) Faerie: I am, much good it did though...
(15:52:46) Mefiante: Hmm, sadly it seems to be a universal truth that people can’t see a genuine threat to their liberties until it’s too late. Still, you have to marvel at the sheer brazen ingenuity of vesting the power to sign this abominable miscarriage of justice into law in precisely those who stand to gain the most protection from it. Conflict of interest? Never! And they occupy the privileged position that they do purely by the good grace of the people whose rights they will now no doubt subvert. You can’t make this stuff up.
(15:59:59) Faerie: Could it possibly be challenged in the Con court? I suspect it might. A glimmer of hope there for us.
(16:04:38) ingwe: Who appointed the ConCourt Justices?
(16:10:00) GCG: everybody that has power, is on the ANC payroll. True justice is a myth. Just look at Shabir Shaik...
(19:22:18) Mefiante: It looks like it will be challenged in the ConCourt but it’ll be months yet, if not years before the issue is put to rest one way or the other. (The theory here is that the judiciary is independent of the executive. John Hlope screwed that theory up.)
The essential problem is that far too few people seem to realise, either due to naiveté or apathy (or possibly both), just how significant a threat to liberal democratic principles this Bill actually is.  In this setting, a free press is the only effective handbrake on government and business abuses against the people.  It is no overstatement to say that this Bill is to date by far the gravest peril SA’s democracy has faced, and that in its present form it paves the way for all sorts of ever more restrictive measures.

'Luthon64
« Last Edit: November 23, 2011, 11:31:02 am by Mefiante »
"Sensitive" people are now carefully examining the entire universe, trying to find something to be "offended" at. It won't stop until such time as the "offenders" learn to stop apologizing, and saying "freck off" instead. — brianvds, The ShoutBox Classics, 02/07/2018.


Offline cyghost

  • Skeptically yours
  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 1426
    • Skeptical ability: +12/-1
  • Carpe diem
ANC Wiki censored  :D

been fixed though  >:(

I found Keith Koza's comment particularly ironic:

"Interfering with information undermines the very need of [information providers]," Khoza said.
Ei incumbit probatio, qui dicit, non qui negat; cum per rerum naturam factum negantis probatio nulla sit


Offline Mefiante

  • Defollyant Iconoclast
  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 3796
    • Skeptical ability: +64/-9
  • In solidarity with rwenzori: Κοπρος φανεται
    • Me, according to johnno777
It looks like the ANC is adamant about getting its way with the Secrecy Bill — by hook or by crook.

'Luthon64
"Sensitive" people are now carefully examining the entire universe, trying to find something to be "offended" at. It won't stop until such time as the "offenders" learn to stop apologizing, and saying "freck off" instead. — brianvds, The ShoutBox Classics, 02/07/2018.


Offline Hermes

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 1137
    • Skeptical ability: +18/-2
In an article in Business Day, Leon Louw of the Free Market Foundation trivializes the Protection of Information Bill with an astonishingly inane line of reasoning.

Quote
INSTEAD of being delighted, journalists are squealing like stuck pigs because the Protection of State Information Bill, known as the "secrecy bill", was passed by the National Council of Provinces. Why aren’t they delighted? Most journalists salivate with glee at every state intervention. Surely they knew their turn would come. Do they really think journalism is a special case? Of course they do. Their mantra that "people have the right to know" is repeated as if it settles the matter.

But people also have the right to food, clothes, healthcare, insurance, liquor, banking, jobs, cigarettes, energy and much more. By logical extension, the media should demand unregulated retailing, medical schemes, insurance, alcohol, banking, labour, tobacco and electricity with comparable conviction.

Terms of endearment....   Some people simply do not grasp the reality that a democracy cannot function in an environment where the government operates in secrecy.

Jacques responded with a well argued reply.

My thoughts, my beliefs, my feelings are all in my brain.  My brain is going to rot. - Richard Dawkins


Offline Majin

  • Jr. Member
  • **
    • Posts: 78
    • Skeptical ability: +1/-0
If I'm not mistaken, this still has to survive the constitutional court.

Of course, the ANC managed to convince a clear majority that this should be legislated, so I don't see them having trouble getting it amended to the constitution. At which point I'll start to feel forced to do the unthinkable, and leave this place.  :(

If this seems like the typical overreaction to you, I apologise, but freedom of speech is one of those things I hold very dear and critical to my personal freedom.

Sadly I agree. :(