South African Skeptics

...and so homeopathy is a cure-all

Brian · 54 · 19541

Offline Lurkie

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That's probably because you are approachable, smart and well presented. These buggers want good reps to sell their pseudo crap.

My SO and I gatecrashed an Amway bash to try and convince our neighbour that she was buying into a Ponzi scheme. Our usually rational neighbour wouldn't wasn't rational anymore. Sheeple were everywhere.

Also tried to explain how Amway works to an old school friend who had resigned from her job, start a new business etc. Even mentioned class action suits against Amway etc. It ment nothing to her, and I think she has branded me as a fanatic.

I need to ask her how her new business venture worked out... Might be struck off her email list and get no feedback though.

Live long and don't be duped.


Offline The Vulcan

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You know, you can very easily show that it's a pyramid scheme - that whole pipeline business, well that's just a pyramid turned on its side, it can very easily be shown to be a pyramid if you can show her how she fits in her upline and downlines - that goes for all MLMs, they know people got the pyramid scare, so they just turn it on its side and call it network marketing
"Live Long And Prosper" - Old Vulcan Greeting


Offline Lurkie

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Yep. We tried all that. Also chatted to the chief honcho. We went back home completely amazed that apparently smart people would fall for this crap, despite pointing out the obvious flaws. Brainwashed

As an aside, we landed up adopting their apparently beloved cat. They visited once and then abandoned a very sweet kitty, despite promising to pay vet bills etc.

These people don't work from the same moral, decent, fair code.


Offline Lurkie

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Dead right. They said it was network marketing after we said pyramid scheme. Then there was a long conversion attempt using various tactics and we landed up being classified as being hostile. So we left before any GBH was committed.

Unfortunately the stupid gene is very resilient and will probably never die out.


Offline The Vulcan

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Well it's more than a so-called stupid gene - the stupid gene is really based on our own desires coupled with wishful thinking, that's how religion get you sold too -  really they basically get people into it by some clever thinking and appealing to your emotional side:
  • They sell a dream (like scams go...)
  • They appeal to you greed
  • They appeal to peoples need to belong

All they have to do is help you rationalise this idea to yourself that there's a way for you to just create this lovely passive income stream by selling this idea to your friends, yeah appeal to greed and laziness works! And like religion expect you to swallow all this crap without questioning too much, they are prepared for basic questions but always ends up on relying on your emotional state than using your brain
« Last Edit: January 19, 2014, 23:14:12 pm by The Vulcan »
"Live Long And Prosper" - Old Vulcan Greeting


Offline BoogieMonster

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the lady had terminal cancer and was put on morphine for pain management - he would have her throw that away and take this "miracle, cure-all"

Holy shit man I've seen where it goes once you're terminal with cancer and put on morphine.. That's a nightmarish amount of pain those people are in. Go OFF the morphine? Is he nuts?! Those people get to a point they're in so much pain they can't move a muscle out of fear, and that's WHILST TAKING DEBILITATING DOSES OF MORPHINE(!!!!).

IOW: That is just sick, beyond immoral, I have no words. WTF is wrong with people... etc.
"Monkey killing monkey killing monkey over pieces of the ground, Silly monkeys, give them thumbs, they make a club and beat their brother down. How they survive, so misguided, is a mystery. Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here" - Tool


Offline The Vulcan

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I kid you not BM, I kid you not - he didn't even blink and worst part is the hubby and his son was both seriously considering this out of sheer desperation - took a bit of fighting to snap them back to reality, fucking hate those bastards, never wanna hear anything mannatech now.
"Live Long And Prosper" - Old Vulcan Greeting


Offline Lurkie

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A year ago, a beloved family member was diagnosed with cancer. Chemo and radiation didn't work, but the homeopath across the street interfered with her magic water and supplements. Then followed the reduction of morphine etc. and lots of false hope. She died horribly.

The whole thing was beyond sickening.




Offline cr1t

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A year ago, a beloved family member was diagnosed with cancer. Chemo and radiation didn't work, but the homeopath across the street interfered with her magic water and supplements. Then followed the reduction of morphine etc. and lots of false hope. She died horribly.

The whole thing was beyond sickening.




That is horrible, I think somebody should sue such a person for the pain and suffering they cause with there fake nonesense


Offline BoogieMonster

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Surely some of these people need to be taken to court for practising medicine without a license? Yeah, I have no idea how this works, and understand all kinds of "traditional" quackery is allowed in this country, but surely the madness has to stop somewhere?
"Monkey killing monkey killing monkey over pieces of the ground, Silly monkeys, give them thumbs, they make a club and beat their brother down. How they survive, so misguided, is a mystery. Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here" - Tool


Offline The Vulcan

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It's not they're NOT being sued, the thing is though, it is a multi-billion rand/dollar et al global industry and I don't think that these scumbag-kingpins really buy into the quack-side at all, it's pure business, old-fashioned bottom-line exploitation of the consumer, they have the same knack for getting people to believe that churches do, that's why they rely so heavily on testimonies and their own "journals" as opposed to say... peer reviewed scientific studies/trials etc...

They don't need to win all court cases, they can just keep on postponing the shit out of it, plus with their almost non-existent input cost the court cases can be basically written off as school-fees.

Want elke sport moet mos maar sy besering hê.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2014, 11:36:25 am by The Vulcan »
"Live Long And Prosper" - Old Vulcan Greeting


Offline Mefiante

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The trouble here is fivefold.  First, homoeopaths are recognised in law as medical professionals equal to any specialist, which is a travesty to be sure.  Therefore, in addition to the umbrella protections afforded them by the AHPCSA, they enjoy legal protections for their profession as well.

Second, they are very good at putting on airs of caring and good intentions.  They have to be adept at it because their livelihood depends on projecting such an image, be it genuine or contrived.

Third, the patient’s family and/or primary caregivers must also carry a small measure of blame for such unnecessary suffering due to their failure to discuss the issues such as withholding conventional treatments with the oncologist first before pinning their hopes on magic snake oil.

Fourth, in the case of a terminal patient, there is the question of who, besides the patient, incurred substantial suffering.  Except in the case of a minor or legal guardianship, it is unlikely that a case will succeed when filed by a family contending undue suffering of a deceased member.  There is the option of professional misconduct or even malpractice but for these to stick, a homoeopath has to violate established homoeopathic practice (regardless of how much of a sham that might be).

Finally, perhaps medical specialists can also be held partly accountable.  They could be more conscientious and proactively raise the topic of CAM with patients and their family, alerting them to the potential ill effects of buying into nonsense and/or forsaking proven treatment regimes.

'Luthon64
"Sensitive" people are now carefully examining the entire universe, trying to find something to be "offended" at. It won't stop until such time as the "offenders" learn to stop apologizing, and saying "freck off" instead. — brianvds, The ShoutBox Classics, 02/07/2018.


Offline BoogieMonster

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So, this MLM thing, is only practised by registered homeopaths?
"Monkey killing monkey killing monkey over pieces of the ground, Silly monkeys, give them thumbs, they make a club and beat their brother down. How they survive, so misguided, is a mystery. Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here" - Tool


Offline Mefiante

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I think our resident Dr Spock ( ;) ) will need to elaborate on that.  I don’t know much about Mannatech, but from what little I have read, it seems that they play with the whole gamut of sCAMmers.

I was more concerned about outlining the difficulties of suing meddling CAM quacks, particularly homoeopaths.

'Luthon64
"Sensitive" people are now carefully examining the entire universe, trying to find something to be "offended" at. It won't stop until such time as the "offenders" learn to stop apologizing, and saying "freck off" instead. — brianvds, The ShoutBox Classics, 02/07/2018.


Offline Lurkie

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After a small Internet search using 'Mannatech' and 'class action', it seems that they have been sued a few times. Rather like the SCIO twits (who keep rebranding the quackery and then move the marketing to a new continent).

Mannatech is like Amway. Multilevel marketing, aka pyramid scheme (the Amway guys freaked out at being branded a pyramid scheme and had a bunch of unconvincing reasons why they were different).