South African Skeptics

Taking God out of school - first episode....

Faerie · 70 · 24486

Online BoogieMonster

  • NP complete
  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 3282
    • Skeptical ability: +19/-1
I've never drawn that conclusion about polygamy= marriage and polyamoury= relationship

Quote from: Polygamy
Polygamy (from Late Greek πολυγαμία, polygamia, "state of marriage to many spouses" or "frequent marriage") is a marriage that includes more than two partners. When a man is married to more than one wife at a time, the relationship is called polygyny; and when a woman is married to more than one husband at a time, it is called polyandry.

Quote from: Polyamory
Polyamory (from Greek πολύ poly, "many, several", and Latin amor, "love") is the practice, desire, or acceptance of having more than one intimate relationship at a time with the knowledge and consent of everyone involved

FYI. Not saying wiki is the bastion of all things true. But it does underscore how I understand the terms.
"Monkey killing monkey killing monkey over pieces of the ground, Silly monkeys, give them thumbs, they make a club and beat their brother down. How they survive, so misguided, is a mystery. Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here" - Tool


Offline The Vulcan

  • Shipmate
  • Full Member
  • ***
    • Posts: 230
    • Skeptical ability: +3/-0
    • About Vulcans
Yes, also did some googling, which cleared things up for me:

Quote
The term technically means many marriages or spouses and can apply to any situation where more then two people are in a marriage type of commitment (legal or not). Around the world, these forms of relationships can take many forms, with many different hierarchical structures.  Many of them are well described in this Wikipedia entry.  From a technical standpoint, the major difference between polyamory and polygamy is the marriage component. 

Here in America however, the term polygamy is often used in the mainstream to refer to a specific form of group marriage that is practiced by some splinter groups of Mormonism that has a dominant male at the center with multiple female wives. This is more specifically Polygyny.
http://www.serolynne.com/polyvspolygamy.htm - ok so I can't verify the reliability of this source, but it does seems to clarify things for me.

I always thought that polygyny must be a either a misspelling or a synonym

Man,,, seems like we're forking the thread again ;D
"Live Long And Prosper" - Old Vulcan Greeting


Offline Faerie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 2128
    • Skeptical ability: +10/-2

Offline Rigil Kent

  • Armed liberal
  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 2542
    • Skeptical ability: +20/-3
  • Three men make a tiger.
... to me the word "marriage" means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Me and Majin are partners, in both our minds for good.
Not to rain on your clearly romantically idealized parade, but there is one good thing that marriage brings with it, and that is a proper prenuptial contract. Thor forbid it should ever be an issue, but if you do split up less that amicably, common law will dictate that you share your belongings 50:50 .... which may or may not be a good thing depending on the details.

Maybe you can register your partnership as a close corporation or a trust, just for incase. ;) :P

Rigil
You know it's cold outside when you go outside and it's cold.


Offline Rigil Kent

  • Armed liberal
  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 2542
    • Skeptical ability: +20/-3
  • Three men make a tiger.

Offline The Vulcan

  • Shipmate
  • Full Member
  • ***
    • Posts: 230
    • Skeptical ability: +3/-0
    • About Vulcans
AfriForum onderneem om enige iemand wat 'n teensand wil maak teen OGOD te ondersteun en self die geld daarvoor op te dok

[spoiler]
Quote
In ʼn demokratiese land waar ons almal regte het en in gelykheid moet saamleef, voel dit deesdae maar moeilik.  Ek kan nie help om te voel dat party mense dink dat hulle sê groter is as ander se sê nie.

As daar in ʼn Grondwet voorsiening gemaak word om godsdiens te mag beoefen in skole, waarom moet dit dan nou beëindig word? Waarom word daar so streng en kras na Christen-skole verwys en hoekom pryk opskrifte soos: “HAAL GOD UIT SKOLE” op lamppale?

Dis eenvoudig, mense met geen fundamentele waardes wakker sulke situasies aan.  Hulle het nie ʼn geloof om te beoefen nie en nou mag niemand anders hulle geloof beoefen nie.  Is dit nie ironies nie? Beskuldigings word rondgegooi dat leerlinge se regte aangetas word as hulle tydens saalopening moet bid of Christelike liedjies moet sing, maar die waarheid is dat geen leerling nog ooit gedwing is om aan hierdie praktyke deel te neem as dit nie sy geloofsoortuiging is nie en/of as hy/sy nie gemaklik voel daarmee nie.

Om godsdiens heeltemal uit skole te neem, beteken nie net dat hierdie organisasie, met die afkorting Ogod, hulle siening op skole afdwing nie, maar dit beteken ook dat leerlinge wat wel Christene is, ontneem word om ʼn keuse te maak ten opsigte van hulle geloof, want daar is klaar vir hulle besluit.  As Christen weet ek dat my geloof nie iets is wat ek net sekere tye van die jaar beoefen nie.  Dit is nie iets wat op spesifieke tye uitgevoer word nie.  My Christenskap is deel van my, hetsy ek by my werk, huis of oral waar ek gaan, is. Een van die grootste voorregte vir my is om by ʼn organisasie te werk waar ek openlik my geloof kan beoefen.  Wat dit wonderlik maak is dat daar ruimte vir geloofsbeoefening by my werk is, net soos daar nog altyd ruimte vir dit op skool ook was.  Waarom word ons nou deur dié probleem in die gesig gestaar? Hoekom voel mense, wat aan geen geloof behoort nie, altyd so geïntimideer deur ander gelowe?  Dit was mos jou keuse om nie in iets te glo nie? Nie deel te wees nie, nie te behoort nie.  Omdat jy nou daardie leemte het, nou moet almal afstand doen!

AfriForum kan nie sulke teengodsdiensfundamentaliste steun nie.  Ons is ʼn burgerregte-organisasie wat daar is vir al ons landsburgers, maar ons is ook ʼn Christelike organisasie en steun Christelike geloofspraktyke in skole wat reeds uitgevoer word om nie op tone te trap nie en almal akkommodeer.  AfriForum sal hierdie geveg tot in die hoogste howe beveg.  Ons sal die regskostes dra van die skole wat opstaan teen dié organisasie vir godsdiensonderrig en demokrasie.  Ons sal ons kinders se regte beskerm, want op die ou end van die dag is die gesaghebbendste persoon wat kan kies oor die beoefening van geloofspraktyke in skole, die leerling SELF en dit waarmee hy/sy gemaklik is.
[/spoiler]

        -https://www.afriforum.co.za/land-skool-god/

Lyk my daai battle lines waarvan julle gepraat het is definitief in die sand getrek
« Last Edit: September 09, 2014, 11:53:56 am by The Vulcan »
"Live Long And Prosper" - Old Vulcan Greeting


Offline The Vulcan

  • Shipmate
  • Full Member
  • ***
    • Posts: 230
    • Skeptical ability: +3/-0
    • About Vulcans
... to me the word "marriage" means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Me and Majin are partners, in both our minds for good.
Not to rain on your clearly romantically idealized parade, but there is one good thing that marriage brings with it, and that is a proper prenuptial contract. Thor forbid it should ever be an issue, but if you do split up less that amicably, common law will dictate that you share your belongings 50:50 .... which may or may not be a good thing depending on the details.

Maybe you can register your partnership as a close corporation or a trust, just for incase. ;) :P

Rigil

If you do wish to do a prenup, remember the accrual system applies by default, if not expressly excluded

Indeed.
Funny how people sometimes miss that a marriage is also a legal business relationship, and not just a happily ever after, drive off into the sunset thing.
"Live Long And Prosper" - Old Vulcan Greeting


Offline Rigil Kent

  • Armed liberal
  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 2542
    • Skeptical ability: +20/-3
  • Three men make a tiger.
Quote
leerlinge wat wel Christene is, ontneem word om ʼn keuse te maak ten opsigte van hulle geloof, want daar is klaar vir hulle besluit.
Wat 'n belaglike argument. Asof die skool nou skielik al moontlike plek is waar kinders afgerig kan word om in jirrejissis te glo! En om nie eers te praat van al die ander gelowe waaraan hulle in elk geval nie blootgestel word om hulle te help met hulle kwansuise "keuse" nie. 'n Groot pot retoriese snot as jy my vra.
You know it's cold outside when you go outside and it's cold.


Offline Faerie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 2128
    • Skeptical ability: +10/-2
... to me the word "marriage" means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Me and Majin are partners, in both our minds for good.

Maybe you can register your partnership as a close corporation or a trust, just for incase. ;) :P

Rigil

You can register a civil union at home affairs, and set up an antinuptial contract along side.

My husband and I got married for financial reasons... I work for a financial institution and he could get staff rates for loans etc only if we were decently married. So we popped into Home affairs, dragged two witnesses out of the neverending queues and got married, went to the bank straight after with our little piece of paper and changed our marital status for the sake of a lower interest bond.

I'm with Boogie though, if it wasnt for the huge difference in interest rates on his half of the bond, we wouldnt have bothered at all. We dont celebrate the anniversary either, although my MIL phones every year to congratulate us....


Online BoogieMonster

  • NP complete
  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 3282
    • Skeptical ability: +19/-1
... to me the word "marriage" means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
Not to rain on your clearly romantically idealized parade, but there is one good thing that marriage brings with it, and that is a proper prenuptial contract.

Not as romantically idealized as you imagine. I understand there are legal implications and impositions being placed on us out here in the real world, but marriage still means nothing to me personally. I find the idea that the state has to get involved a bit repulsive.

Quote
Thor forbid it should ever be an issue, but if you do split up less that amicably, common law will dictate that you share your belongings 50:50 .... which may or may not be a good thing depending on the details.

I know some couples who were doing the living together thing, and they all indicated their satan spawn lawyers told them this is not as much the case as most believe. Anywho, we will do the court thing at some point. Because, you know, bullshit.
"Monkey killing monkey killing monkey over pieces of the ground, Silly monkeys, give them thumbs, they make a club and beat their brother down. How they survive, so misguided, is a mystery. Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here" - Tool


Offline The Vulcan

  • Shipmate
  • Full Member
  • ***
    • Posts: 230
    • Skeptical ability: +3/-0
    • About Vulcans
@Rigil, beslis belaglik ja, maar nietemin verwagte, religieuse mense is experts met die victim card -game, dit word immers van kleins af in gedrill dat christene vervolg word, die bybel leer ons mos so mooi hoe christene vervolg WAS.

Die ander saak wat my heeltemal suur maak is die vals beskuldiging dat mense sonder geloof, nie fundamentele waardes (wat baiekeer geimpliseer word as gebrek aan morele waarde) - whatever fundementele waardes ookal mag beteken.

Die bybel/koran/torah ens is mos kwansuis die finale woord op morele waardes, as jy mos nie jou waardes onderskryf aan 'n skynheilige boek nie, het jy mos geen moral policy nie en kan jy dus nie met hulle eens saampraat oor moraliteit nie.
"Live Long And Prosper" - Old Vulcan Greeting


Offline Rigil Kent

  • Armed liberal
  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 2542
    • Skeptical ability: +20/-3
  • Three men make a tiger.
What's more, Afriforum is supposedly big on sticking up for the rights of minorities. And here we are considering the rights of children from secular parents attending nominally Christian public schools: how much more of a defenseless minority can you be!

Anywho, we will do the court thing at some point. Because, you know, bullshit.
Well, as long as you do it, you know, for the right reasons! 0:) ;D
You know it's cold outside when you go outside and it's cold.


Online BoogieMonster

  • NP complete
  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 3282
    • Skeptical ability: +19/-1
What's more, Afriforum is supposedly big on sticking up for the rights of minorities.

Ja, nee, ek dink nie ek was al onder daai wanindruk nie. Afriforum gee om vir die "regte" van 'n konserwatiewe christelike wit "minderheid" solank dit hulle pas. Hulle was nie in my insiens ooit veel gepla met enigiemand anders nie. Ek dink nie hulle sou eers skroom om die regte van ander te verpletter nie.... En toe daar het jy dit nou.

Dit moet moeilik wees om 'n minderheid te wees as jy die ander kant van die debat heeltemal oordonder.
"Monkey killing monkey killing monkey over pieces of the ground, Silly monkeys, give them thumbs, they make a club and beat their brother down. How they survive, so misguided, is a mystery. Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here" - Tool


Offline The Vulcan

  • Shipmate
  • Full Member
  • ***
    • Posts: 230
    • Skeptical ability: +3/-0
    • About Vulcans
But wait there's more... (wtf!!)

Quote
Volgens Carien Bloem, hoof van AfriForum se onderwysveldtogte, vind die organisasie dit onaanvaarbaar dat teengodsdiensfundamentaliste nou skole viktimiseer in ʼn poging om kinders te dwing om nie hulle godsdiens te beoefen nie.Bloem meen verder dat dit ironies is dat die teengodsdiensfundamentaliste daarop aanspraak maak dat hulle nie kinders onder dwang aan skoolgodsdiens wil blootstel nie, maar nou self hulle teengodsdienstige siening op alle skole wil afdwing.

- Afriforum

Ek dink sy neem haar gameplan direk uit die spelboek van amerikaanse fundementalistiese replublikeine, sover ek kan herroep is presies dieselfd resep gevolg met die O'Hair storie.

Nee, ek dink nie OGOD probeer "hul teengodsdienstige siening afdwing" op skole en leerders nie, ek betwyfel dit sterk dat hulle enigeiemand se geloofsvryheid wil afneem.

Dieselfde taktiek word gebruik in die VSA waar die idee om nie godsdiens op kinders af te dwing nie gelyk gestel word met kinders/mense mag nie hul godsdiens beoefen of uitleef ens nie, maar dis 'n taktiek wat nietemin werk, en moontlik die saak kan kos.


Quote
Die Afrikaanse Vrydenkersbeweging  (AVB) het ontstaan uit 'n behoefte onder Afrikaans-sprekende ouers om skole aan te moedig om omgewings te skep waar kinders hulleself vrylik kan uitdruk sonder vrees vir konformering en groepsdruk. Die beweging is in 2011 opgevolg deur die Organisasie vir Godsdienste-Onderrig en Demokrasie (OGOD).

OGOD wil toesien dat staatshulpbronne nie vir bekerings-aktiwiteite misbruik word nie, net soos dit nie vir politieke oorreding misbruik mag word nie. OGOD streef daarna om ons kinders se opvoeding van ons Calvinistiese verlede te bevry soos wat die Voëlvry-beweging in die tagtigerjare vir Afrikaanse musiek gedoen het.

http://www.hulle.co.za/1801/19801.html
"Live Long And Prosper" - Old Vulcan Greeting


Offline Mefiante

  • Defollyant Iconoclast
  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 3796
    • Skeptical ability: +64/-9
  • In solidarity with rwenzori: Κοπρος φανεται
    • Me, according to johnno777
The idea that barring any and all religious observances from schools during ordinary hours somehow discriminates against a majority is as absurd as it is contrived.  You could with equal cogency claim that a school declining to offer, say, tennis as a sport is discriminating against the majority who believe pupils must have that option.

The linked-to Rapport article earlier cited a Cassie Aucamp, dominee, as pontificating the same ludicrous nonsense as AfriForum’s Carien Bloem in the above regard.  These people need to sit down and think coherently about the nature of responsibilities and rights, both positive and negative, or they will keep mumbling past the feet they have in their mouths.

'Luthon64
"Sensitive" people are now carefully examining the entire universe, trying to find something to be "offended" at. It won't stop until such time as the "offenders" learn to stop apologizing, and saying "freck off" instead. — brianvds, The ShoutBox Classics, 02/07/2018.