South African Skeptics

Capitalist Party of South Africa

Offline brianvds

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Their website:

https://capitalist.org.za/home

So, does anyone know anything about them? Are they worth a vote?


Offline BoogieMonster

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I am really, really intrigued but not yet convinced. However details seem thin on the ground.
"Monkey killing monkey killing monkey over pieces of the ground, Silly monkeys, give them thumbs, they make a club and beat their brother down. How they survive, so misguided, is a mystery. Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here" - Tool


Offline brianvds

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I am really, really intrigued but not yet convinced. However details seem thin on the ground.

I haven't watched their little videos yet, so I don't know how good their plans are. But I like their notion of smaller parties letting go of grandiose plans and instead focus on smaller but achievable goals. I also think they are right in that within an election or two, SA will have a coalition government, at which point it becomes very feasible to vote for smaller parties.


Offline brianvds

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Got around to watching their videos. Some of their plans seem very workable to me; others (such as reducing violence against women by arming them) strike me as more dubious. I am not entirely sure about their economic plans (e.g. negative tax) because I am not really qualified to critique it. On the face of it, it also seems like a workable idea.

In any event, for those of somewhat libertarian bent, they are the only option. The actual libertarian party, as with last election, will not be running. My guess is that they are so embroiled in issues of ideology that they can't get their ducks in a row. But what we need now is a plan, not an ideology. Alas, the chances that the capitalists will get enough votes to get a representative into parliament are probably very slim. Almost nobody even knows about them, and the ones who do will likely argue that it is a "wasted vote."

I haven't quite decided where I stand on the issue. It would actually be nice to vote for someone for a change, instead of merely against someone, as we tend to do both here and in the U.S.A. In both countries, that attitude has poisoned political discourse.


Offline BoogieMonster

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Well, by the bevy of people asking me about this, both online and IRL.... I think their support may be understated.

The trick with a party like this is to convince everyone that everyone else is also thinking the same thing.
"Monkey killing monkey killing monkey over pieces of the ground, Silly monkeys, give them thumbs, they make a club and beat their brother down. How they survive, so misguided, is a mystery. Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here" - Tool


Offline brianvds

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Well, by the bevy of people asking me about this, both online and IRL.... I think their support may be understated.

The trick with a party like this is to convince everyone that everyone else is also thinking the same thing.

Yup. The reason why a small party like this fails to get someone into parliament is precisely because voters think they won't, and therefore think it would be a "wasted vote." So they vote for someone else, even someone that leaves a bad taste in their mouth.

But even if they don't get into parliament, a vote for them isn't wasted; it forms part of the data they have at their disposal to do better next time. To some extent it also sends out the "none of the above" message to the big parties.


Offline BoogieMonster

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You know.... from the last couple of elections I actually have "super emergency" fatigue.

It feels like every election is an SA "do or die" situation. I think this time around I may actually vote with my conscience.

Edit: For clarity, what exactly that means I don't know yet.
"Monkey killing monkey killing monkey over pieces of the ground, Silly monkeys, give them thumbs, they make a club and beat their brother down. How they survive, so misguided, is a mystery. Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here" - Tool


Offline brianvds

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You know.... from the last couple of elections I actually have "super emergency" fatigue.

It feels like every election is an SA "do or die" situation. I think this time around I may actually vote with my conscience.

Edit: For clarity, what exactly that means I don't know yet.

I have noticed this emergency thing with Americans: every single election for the past few decades they told me that next time round they'll vote with their conscience, but this time's too important; if the wrong guy gets in, it's the end of civilization as we know it. We have seen where this attitude has brought them: as it is their choices have always been severely limited, and nowadays, come election time, they have a choice between the right wing (Hillary and pals) and the batshit insane wing (the current administration and support). Their democracy has become so dysfunctional it has to significant extent ended.


Offline BoogieMonster

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Here's what the man himself says about the "wasted vote" argument: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jrsu5fYEtB4#t=10m44s
"Monkey killing monkey killing monkey over pieces of the ground, Silly monkeys, give them thumbs, they make a club and beat their brother down. How they survive, so misguided, is a mystery. Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here" - Tool


Offline brianvds

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Here's what the man himself says about the "wasted vote" argument: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jrsu5fYEtB4#t=10m44s

He's right too. In a proportional representation system, it makes sense to vote your conscience. On lots of issues, they will probably support the DA in parliament anyway. And even if they don't get a seat, it is still not a "wasted vote," because it gives them valuable information on how much support they have and where, so they can gear up for the next election.

There are times when it makes sense to vote tactically, but one should be very wary of it, because it weakens the fabric of democracy. At least, I think there is a danger of that.


Offline Rigil Kent

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The lavender bovine got my national vote today. Emotionally, it was a curious mix of bored dread and cautious curiosity. A bit like installing Ubuntu over Windows for the first time.
You know it's cold outside when you go outside and it's cold.


Offline brianvds

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The lavender bovine got my national vote today. Emotionally, it was a curious mix of bored dread and cautious curiosity. A bit like installing Ubuntu over Windows for the first time.


Same with me. Perhaps they won't get enough votes to reach parliament, in which case it was a "wasted vote," but then at least they can't do any harm!

On provincial level I somewhat reluctantly supported the DA. They do have a fairly good record of clean administration, but Jesus, the whoring for votes. I eventually had to block their number to stop getting calls at all hours of the day. And I hated their negative campaign, actually making up reasons for why people should not vote for smaller parties. "Don't vote your conscience, vote for us, because otherwise the ANC gets in."

Douglas Adams's planet of lizards all over again.


Offline brianvds

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Doesn't look like the Purple Cow will get anywhere remotely close to parliament. Well, we tried. MOOOO!


Offline BoogieMonster

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I'd hold the phone on that one. It doesn't look good but their target audience remains largely uncounted (populous metros).
"Monkey killing monkey killing monkey over pieces of the ground, Silly monkeys, give them thumbs, they make a club and beat their brother down. How they survive, so misguided, is a mystery. Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here" - Tool


Offline brianvds

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I'd hold the phone on that one. It doesn't look good but their target audience remains largely uncounted (populous metros).

Well, we'll see. Thus far, it actually looks as if the status quo will be largely maintained. The ANC seems to have lost quite a bit of support, but the other parties remain pretty much the same. At least, that is the case at the moment, which 9/5/2019, 16:24.