South African Skeptics

Atheists are Fools!

Sentinel · 21 · 10451

Offline Sentinel

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Many Christians like to quote the following passage to atheists...
Quote from: Psalm 14:1
The fool has said in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, they have committed abominable deeds; There is no one who does good.

David Mills, author of Atheist Universe, said he likes to answer by quoting the following scripture...
Quote from: Matthew 5:22
Whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

I guess King David is in hell while Jeffrey Dahmer is playing harp on a cloud in heaven!

« Last Edit: February 23, 2009, 18:44:22 pm by Sentinel »
“When liberty comes with hands dabbled in blood it is hard to shake hands with her.” Oscar Wilde

“Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.” Benjamin Franklin


Offline Sentinel

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Top 100 April Fool's Day Jokes

Number 7: Alabama Changes the Value of Pi
The April 1998 issue of the New Mexicans for Science and Reason newsletter contained an article claiming that the Alabama state legislature had voted to change the value of the mathematical constant pi from 3.14159 to the 'Biblical value' of 3.0. Before long the article had made its way onto the internet, and then it rapidly made its way around the world, forwarded by people in their email. It only became apparent how far the article had spread when the Alabama legislature began receiving hundreds of calls from people protesting the legislation. The original article, which was intended as a parody of legislative attempts to circumscribe the teaching of evolution, was written by a physicist named Mark Boslough.

Number 10: Planetary Alignment Decreases Gravity
In 1976 the British astronomer Patrick Moore announced on BBC Radio 2 that at 9:47 AM a once-in-a-lifetime astronomical event was going to occur that listeners could experience in their very own homes. The planet Pluto would pass behind Jupiter, temporarily causing a gravitational alignment that would counteract and lessen the Earth's own gravity. Moore told his listeners that if they jumped in the air at the exact moment that this planetary alignment occurred, they would experience a strange floating sensation. When 9:47 AM arrived, BBC2 began to receive hundreds of phone calls from listeners claiming to have felt the sensation. One woman even reported that she and her eleven friends had risen from their chairs and floated around the room.
“When liberty comes with hands dabbled in blood it is hard to shake hands with her.” Oscar Wilde

“Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.” Benjamin Franklin


Offline Mefiante

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An encoded prediction:


$;Fn#z2i}euCt?Aw>v?.gy_v$MFt}=g]==avymlw~CO -#cktyA
<$FWckV)m5NCo_v#Um^AAj2eeMFlQ+^AA+&-6%k\uC!\CY)mZY)
],vPvF*AAnNg"Ngyv+MyAc)v$QAwAAnNgs<F3u+|U g&-#|_=LF
. kW;C=avHav8Ef6%k\uC+)E6%k>O++z+:{=yevnvF%MFbNC34g
"2AN*+lwiL\g[.FM{hr?Ac)v(cvnvF,"+*_igTvW\=X>g")E\av
nvFW?f?{hr?Ac)v8!{<MF* -X\ on_N*+*AAifv0yAx|C20~

I’ll reveal what it says when it is fulfilled, together with the decoding scheme.  The reader is, of course, encouraged to try breaking the code.

Oh, and this is definitely the correct subforum and thread for it.

'Luthon64
« Last Edit: July 09, 2009, 12:34:25 pm by Anacoluthon64 »
"Sensitive" people are now carefully examining the entire universe, trying to find something to be "offended" at. It won't stop until such time as the "offenders" learn to stop apologizing, and saying "freck off" instead. — brianvds, The ShoutBox Classics, 02/07/2018.


Offline Sentinel

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Based on the complexity of the code and with prior knowledge of your mathematical and logical abilities, I seriously doubt that this is a straight forward substitution code.

I'm sure even the FBI will battle to break it.

At least give us some indication what to watch out for. For instance, is it world news related?
“When liberty comes with hands dabbled in blood it is hard to shake hands with her.” Oscar Wilde

“Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.” Benjamin Franklin


Online Rigil Kent

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Sentinel, I think you are right. I've spent 3 fun but fruitless hours on the 'Luthon Prophecy yesterday, and am also convinced the solution involves finding 5 digit prime factors or something similar. ;)

For what its worth, it contains around 76 different characters, so I agree, its not a simple substitution cipher.

Mintaka
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Offline Mefiante

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Oh no, the context is entirely local – almost parochially so as it involves the forum directly.  The code is a bit more than a substitution cipher but it isn’t anywhere near as complex as RSA or AES.  It involves some elementary modular arithmetic.  More than that I will not say on the matter, except to add that if my prediction has failed to eventuate within a year from now, I’ll spill the proverbial beans.

'Luthon64
"Sensitive" people are now carefully examining the entire universe, trying to find something to be "offended" at. It won't stop until such time as the "offenders" learn to stop apologizing, and saying "freck off" instead. — brianvds, The ShoutBox Classics, 02/07/2018.


Offline Mefiante

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On second thoughts, I’ll also add that the code’s symbol set consists of 95 characters, as follows:


0123456789 ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTU
VWXYZabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz~
`[email protected]#$%^&*()_+-={}[]|\:;<>,.?/"'

Note that there is a space between “9” and “A,” and that it is one of the 95 symbols.

'Luthon64
"Sensitive" people are now carefully examining the entire universe, trying to find something to be "offended" at. It won't stop until such time as the "offenders" learn to stop apologizing, and saying "freck off" instead. — brianvds, The ShoutBox Classics, 02/07/2018.


Offline Sentinel

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Only three months left to crack the code...

An encoded prediction:


$;Fn#z2i}euCt?Aw>v?.gy_v$MFt}=g]==avymlw~CO -#cktyA
<$FWckV)m5NCo_v#Um^AAj2eeMFlQ+^AA+&-6%k\uC!\CY)mZY)
],vPvF*AAnNg"Ngyv+MyAc)v$QAwAAnNgs<F3u+|U g&-#|_=LF
. kW;C=avHav8Ef6%k\uC+)E6%k>O++z+:{=yevnvF%MFbNC34g
"2AN*+lwiL\g[.FM{hr?Ac)v(cvnvF,"+*_igTvW\=X>g")E\av
nvFW?f?{hr?Ac)v8!{<MF* -X\ on_N*+*AAifv0yAx|C20~


On second thoughts, I’ll also add that the code’s symbol set consists of 95 characters, as follows:


0123456789 ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTU
VWXYZabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz~
`[email protected]#$%^&*()_+-={}[]|\:;<>,.?/"'

Note that there is a space between “9” and “A,” and that it is one of the 95 symbols.

'Luthon64

..if my prediction has failed to eventuate within a year from now, I’ll spill the proverbial beans.
“When liberty comes with hands dabbled in blood it is hard to shake hands with her.” Oscar Wilde

“Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.” Benjamin Franklin


Offline Teleological

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An encoded prediction:


$;Fn#z2i}euCt?Aw>v?.gy_v$MFt}=g]==avymlw~CO -#cktyA
<$FWckV)m5NCo_v#Um^AAj2eeMFlQ+^AA+&-6%k\uC!\CY)mZY)
],vPvF*AAnNg"Ngyv+MyAc)v$QAwAAnNgs<F3u+|U g&-#|_=LF
. kW;C=avHav8Ef6%k\uC+)E6%k>O++z+:{=yevnvF%MFbNC34g
"2AN*+lwiL\g[.FM{hr?Ac)v(cvnvF,"+*_igTvW\=X>g")E\av
nvFW?f?{hr?Ac)v8!{<MF* -X\ on_N*+*AAifv0yAx|C20~

I’ll reveal what it says when it is fulfilled, together with the decoding scheme.  The reader is, of course, encouraged to try breaking the code.

Oh, and this is definitely the correct subforum and thread for it.

'Luthon64
There is no empirically verifiable evidence that that code is the result of any intelligence. That code can be explained to have emerged via evolutionary processes. It is therefore quite useless as a predicting tool because evolution is directionless and purposeless. Anyone trying to ascribe meaning to that code is a fool. ;D
“Those who devote themselves to the purpose of proving that there is no purpose constitute an interesting subject for study.” - Alfred North Whitehead


Online Rigil Kent

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Quote
That code can be explained to have emerged via evolutionary processes.


Ah, but what, then, is the code's function? ;)

Mintaka
You know it's cold outside when you go outside and it's cold.


Offline Teleological

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Quote
That code can be explained to have emerged via evolutionary processes.


Ah, but what, then, is the code's function? ;)

Mintaka
No evidence for God therefore no need to believe that God exists.
No evidence for a function therefore no need to believe that a function exists.

I guess you can see how a certain kind of "logic" can stunt progress  ;).
“Those who devote themselves to the purpose of proving that there is no purpose constitute an interesting subject for study.” - Alfred North Whitehead


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Hey, who'd've thought TellyMecchie has a sense of humor! Up to now there's been no empirically verifiable evidence for it.
"Decency? Decency's over. Decency's lost whatever edge it had. I will never again be pointlessly, endlessly decent." - Carol Shields, Unless.

"Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions." - Thomas Jefferson


Offline Sentinel

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The Luthon Prophecy

Not long to go until the encoded prediction is revealed.



« Last Edit: June 22, 2010, 18:27:32 pm by Sentinel »
“When liberty comes with hands dabbled in blood it is hard to shake hands with her.” Oscar Wilde

“Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.” Benjamin Franklin


Offline Mefiante

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Okay, okay.  Just can’t wait, can you? ;)

Since there’s less than two weeks left and no sign that my prediction was accurate or will become so in the time that remains, a description of the decoding process follows.  Applying it will reveal the encoded message for the benefit of those too impatient to wait another fortnight.

  • The base character set consists of the 95 characters given here.  In the order in which they are listed, each character is numbered according to its position starting at zero.  Thus, for example, the character “8” has the value 8, the character “J” has the value 20 and the character “j” has the value 46.

  • Starting from the beginning of the encoded message, the characters are arranged in sequential groups of three where each such group represents a base-95 integer.  For example, the three-character sequence “L8r” represents the decimal number 22×952+8×95+54 = 199,364 because “L” ≡ 22, “8” ≡ 8 and “r” ≡ 54.  (Do you see the parallel with representation in base 10?  The base-10 symbol triplet “739” translates as 7×102+3×10+9 = 7×100+3×10+9 = 700+30+9 = 739.  Also, “L8r” is just an example; it doesn’t occur in the encrypted message.)

  • Each triplet value is then subjected to the modular transform x’ ← (12,347×x+509,099) mod 953 = (12,347×x+509,099) mod 857,375.  You’ll need at most 11-digit accuracy for this, which any halfway decent calculator or spreadsheet will provide.  Also, this all looks quite scary but isn’t really, so don’t let your eyes glaze over just yet.  The “mod a” operation indicates “remainder after division by a.”  So, if x = 199,364, then the transformed value x’ ← (12,347×199,364+509,099) mod 857,375 = 2,462,056,407 mod 857,375 = 532,782 because 2,462,056,407 leaves a remainder of 532,782 when divided by 857,375.  (Question for the reader:  Why is the modulus or radix equal to 953 = 857,375?)

  • The result of the modular transform is always an integer that can be expressed in base 95, as described in part 2 above, and the result of the modular transform so expressed in base 95 gives the original triplet of characters.  Continuing with our sample value, 532,782 = 59×952+3×95+22 → “w3L” because 59 ≡ “w”, 3 ≡ “3” and 22 ≡ “L”.  Thus, “L8r” decodes to “w3L”.  This process is applied to each of the successive triplets so as to decode the entire message.

Bonus question for the reader:  Parts 1, 2 and 4 described above deal with the mechanics of translating between our ordinary decimal (base 10) system of numeration and one in base 95 (because we have 95 symbols, each of which can be thought of as a digit).  The trick occurs in part 3 with the application of the modular transform that effectively decodes the message.  The bonus question is what, exactly, must we do to encode a message for the above process to work?  (Hint:  “Brute search” is not the correct answer.  There is a direct, explicit, precise and efficient encoding process that does not involve guessing.)  Another bonus question for the reader:  What restriction(s), if any, apply to our modular transform so that it should be fully reversible?

In closing, this isn’t all just for the fun of numerical obscurantism.  The techniques presented illustrate some basic key concepts of information theory, cryptography, number theory and group theory – or at least hint strongly at them – even despite my prognostication being off the mark.

'Luthon64
« Last Edit: June 22, 2010, 22:18:08 pm by Mefiante »
"Sensitive" people are now carefully examining the entire universe, trying to find something to be "offended" at. It won't stop until such time as the "offenders" learn to stop apologizing, and saying "freck off" instead. — brianvds, The ShoutBox Classics, 02/07/2018.


Offline Sentinel

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I'll need a year to figure this one out! I Should have paid more attention in class.

Now where is my scientific calculator...?
“When liberty comes with hands dabbled in blood it is hard to shake hands with her.” Oscar Wilde

“Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.” Benjamin Franklin